She Was Told Studying First Ladies Was ‘Trivial.’ She Did It Anyway.
Now, scholars Teri Finneman and Lisa Burns dive into presidential spouse history and explain why it matters in a new podcast.
![](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3aead926-56ab-44f5-a0ea-b47a1eceeb09_1456x1048.png)
Why does studying America’s first ladies matter?
That was the closing question in episode one of the new The First Ladies podcast that launched last week at the start of Women’s History month. Host Teri Finneman, a journalism professor at the University of Kansas who studies media portrayals of first ladies, sat down with Lisa Burns, a first ladies scholar and Quinnipiac University media studies professor who edited Media Relations and the Modern First Lady, to begin discussing the answer to that question over the course of 14 initial episodes.
Ultimately, the answer is meant to drive the point that the presidency and its place in U.S. history overshadows the significant impact their wives make. The podcast coincides with the upcoming book Cambridge Companion To U.S. First Ladies that Finneman and Burns are co-editing and is set to release in 2025.
Already working behind the scenes on the eighth episode of the podcast, Finneman took a moment to speak with East Wing Magazine in a recent Zoom interview about what inspired the scholars to launch the podcast.
For Finneman, the closing question of the podcast—one that will be asked of all her guests—hits at the heart of why she and Burns are amplifying presidential spouses’ stories. When Finneman was a doctoral student deciding what she wanted to study, she approached a professor about studying first ladies. She was told the topic was “trivial” and that she should find something else.
“I was very crushed,” Finneman recalls. “I almost gave it up at that point because I thought, ‘Well, if it’s not important, maybe I shouldn’t do this.’”
She shared her interest with her advisor and was told what the professor had said was “garbage.” She’s been motivated ever since. As she grew in her doctorate program, she says, she learned of the struggles of women in history and how much women’s stories have been left out.
“I really have a mission,” she says.
In the first episode of the podcast, she interviews Burns who talks about the gaps in history pertaining to first ladies whose role is undefined, unpaid and constantly evolving.
“First ladies are the most prominent women in politics,” Burns says in the podcast, adding in a “celebrity” sense. They transcend partisanship, yet are not immune to criticism.
She talks about Martha Washington, who set up social engagements on behalf of her husband George Washington, the first president. That paved the way for all future first ladies’ White House duties. And at times, Burns says, Martha Washington was criticized for emulating the British monarchy.
“As the White House hostess duties diminish over recent years, first ladies were expected to take on other duties,” Burns says.
For example, first ladies take on causes, political campaigning for their husbands, social advocacy and, at times, pursue policies.
“There is no rulebook or guidelines shaped by the women in the role,” Burns says.
Finneman is especially drawn to telling the stories of “forgotten” first ladies and is contributing a chapter in the book about the death of presidents and how first ladies help shape their husbands’ legacies. Take Mary Lincoln and Jacqueline Kennedy, for instance. They are both widely known first ladies whose husbands were assassinated. For Finneman, it was important to include Lucretia Garfield in the narrative.
Lucretia Garfield, she says, is a first lady “who nobody in this country knows anything about.” Finneman goes to say, “Lucretia’s husband was also sacrificed for this country. I find it extremely unfair that nobody remembers this woman.”
Many scholars, including Finneman, point to the scarcity of first lady (and women’s) history as a result of an abundance of male historians.
“Who has written history?” Finneman rhetorically asks. “Men. Who has written about Mary Lincoln? Men. When you compare how men have written about Mary Lincoln versus how women authors more recently have written about Mary Lincoln, there’s a stark difference.”
America’s first ladies have been the focus of other podcasts in the past including the Ladies, First podcast, The White House 1600 Sessions podcast, and C-SPAN’s First Ladies: In Their Own Words. Finneman hopes to reach Gen Z-ers with her podcast and the book by integrating QR codes in the book, so people can listen to the podcast while reading the book. The First Ladies podcast will include interviews with a range of experts from political science, history and other assorted backgrounds.
Future podcast episodes and book chapters will examine first ladies who served in wartime, first ladies and international diplomacy, and first ladies and women’s rights.
Finding the answer to Finneman’s question, ‘Why does studying first ladies matter?’ is as easy as getting to the crux of why she’s persisted in the field.
“My focus is to give these women the recognition they deserve,” she says.
You can listen to the The First Ladies podcast on the Quinnipiac University Podcast Studio website, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.